Talk:Chara/@comment-36073590-20180704133156/@comment-28517148-20180723143907
@MagomaevaAmina Wikia's pages are something that constantly evolves and change. Its not really a reliable source as it based on fan's interpretations. I'm talking about forum and comment section not articles that are decently moderated and aren't based on speculations. So are all theories pointless and false? Yes. Facts and events clearly described doesn't require theories, but stuff that is implied, insinuated or just vague can only be speculated. ...And their final speech is really logical if YOU TRY to understand it, they basically says... aaaand you are just reading entire Chara's speech "It is still good argument to not interprete their words in any way and to not use it as excuse for their deeds." I wanted to say that I don't want to interprete Chara's speech and use it for example as excuse. I never used it as an excuse for their deeds... Very good, that's fine. I know this game isn't perfect but can you give me any examples where it lack of logic?. The game isn't complete sure but its not "illogical ", i personally don't see any elements that lack of logic I could, but count all plotholes isn't point of this debate and I don't want to flood comment section like others did, and finally - If you can't see it by yourself, I can't help it. In other words I have strong feeling that I will waste time. However, there is an example of what you asking for - first link of chain of series of plotholes nested in the very foundations of the main story line http://undertale.wikia.com/wiki/The_War_of_Humans_and_Monsters#WikiaArticleComments Implications is an indirect way for authors to show their intentions Does this mean you aren't going to speculate anymore? Again if the game is that bad why are in Chara's wikia page? To troll people? Do you want to theorize about this game or say how bad its is? None of the above. And I wonder where in the there's any fanservice, fanservice is something that exists in FRANCHISES to keep audience but here its a game... One of factors that makes visually and technically unattractive Undertale so popular is its melodramatic, farfetched, ambiguous, questionable and lacking in logic story. People will going to discuss about it forever without reaching any consensus or getting satisfactory answers due to everyone wanting to share their opinions in the same time treating them as facts. This is perfect feed for fandom and all sorts of theorists: It doesn't matter what people say about you, as long as they're talking about you. Intentional or not this is fanservice. So saying that its a fanservice is basically an insult towards toby fox. If Toby Fox feels like he's been insulted then I would rather to hear it from him not from you. ...but they didnt manipulate Asriel... It really doesn't matter how you are going to name an act of convincing a child to kill several people, which is as far as I know required to take their Souls. However, none of above matters. This does matter. Yeah they deserve a slap for this... So, on the one hand you do agree that Chara is guilty and deserves punishment for their undeniable bad conduct and you won't defend them - I never wanted to belittle their guilt or to justify their actions... I NEVER said that chara isnt bad. At the same time you don't wish me to call Chara evil (or bad, makes no difference for me) because all undertale's characters are (...) neutral and complex and you just want ''me ''to understand them instead of think they are bad for the sake of bad, which I disagree with since I don't need that to see their undeniable guilt. In the other hand your argumentation revolves around your subjective interpretation of evil: My dico says that evil "is behaving completely deliberately bad" and your not so sneaky attempt to justify those characters: Noone actions make them evil people ,max bad but not evil and theres no exuse for what they done. I myself dont live in any comfortable world i want to debunk all misconceptions regards Chara and even other characters (...) Evil is something that does not exist in your real world(Aswell as in Undertale) Even killing intentionally people isnt evil as theres always understable motives but still deliberatly killing people is extemely amoral and bad and it make you a bad person. You either trying to foist your point of view/opinion on others, baselessly justify conduit of characters or you just don't know what are you doing. Case closed people, you can go home. That's enough spamming.